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Could there be a reversed multiple crown watermark ???

Discovery of reversed ribbing

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Fred Sellars22/06/2019 18:01:30
135 forum posts
46 photos

I don't want to cause an upset to the philatelic community but I may have found something that no one else has looked for before that involves the multiple crown watermark relating to the Wilding definitives.

It's just a theory and not written in stone but I may have discovered a reversed watermark that according to the experts does not exist , I have been studying this issue for nearly 2 years and as everyone knows that the design of the multiple crown watermark would appear the same even when reversed, however, I have discovered that on some of the higher values there appears to be a type of single ribbing in the laid paper set at a 45 degree angle, but what is more interesting is the fact that I have found similar types that run in the opposite direction, by using the ribbon in the laid paper as a type of "Rosetta stone" it would appear that stamps of certain values have a reversed watermark as the ribbing was produced at the same time as the watermark when the paper was just pulp.

As I state this is just a theory but the reversed or offset ribbing does exist.

Please view my finding of the 1/- value below, thank you.

Is it possible ????img_20190524_151557.jpg

Billy Broadland22/06/2019 19:26:08
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153 forum posts
45 photos

Probably a silly question but how could you tell if the watermark was reversed?

The multiple crown watermark is just the crowns and nothing else to distinguish which way round it is.

Fred Sellars22/06/2019 19:48:51
135 forum posts
46 photos

Hi Billy again,

As I have already stated the ribbing and watermark was produced at the same time, the clue is in the ribbing as some ribbings are reversed consequently the watermark is likewise.

Now do you understand my logic relating to the theory.

Billy Broadland22/06/2019 20:03:51
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153 forum posts
45 photos

Can you show the watermark? I know these are difficult to see at times and probably very difficult to show on a scan.

Fred Sellars22/06/2019 20:28:36
135 forum posts
46 photos

Good evening Billy,

The watermark would look the same as previously stated in my original post ,it's the ribbing that counts, you don't need to see the watermark, but I can assure you that it is there !

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Fred Sellars24/06/2019 01:42:48
135 forum posts
46 photos

I have decided to add an additional value to the shilling one previously depicted.

The picture was taken in impact mode which highlights the ribbing and watermark combined,which makes it more distinctive for identification of the difference, therefore making it quite obvious that the single ribbing is in fact reversed on the block as against the  strip .img_20190624_011224.jpg

Edited By Fred Sellars on 24/06/2019 01:45:20

Carmen24/06/2019 12:01:11
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650 forum posts
61 photos

Hey Fred, I can see your point there - since the ribbing is reversed, the watermark is de-factor reversed as well, no matter if it looks like it or not? Makes sense to me.

What have any specialists you've spoken to said about it? Have you spoken to anyone in the business about it, or right now are you just referring to your own study as having not found anything spoken about it yet?

Fred Sellars24/06/2019 12:39:28
135 forum posts
46 photos

Good morning Canada you're up early Carmen,

I have in the past contacted several people of renown such as Ian Harvey, Chris Harman of the Royal philatelic society in London, Hugh Jefferies the editor of Stanley Gibbons, and even the trusted editor of this magazine Guy Thomas who you probably already know.

However latter two are not specialists and could give no comment, however the experts from the RPSL were rather elusive they would not even except that the ribbing was reversed when asked the question ,they even expected me to explain how the anomaly that I stated had happened and gave excuses as to why not.

I eventually gave up trying to convince them as they appeared adamant on the subject and later sent me notice that this was of little philatelic interest.

I have however had some interesting information from the archivist at De La Rue a Mr Georgie Salzedo who confirmed some of my findings which is encouraging.

So there you have it !

It looks like being a busy day so TTFN Fred

Fred Sellars24/06/2019 14:59:17
135 forum posts
46 photos

For the record I would like to rectify a previous statement made by the experts sent to me on the 24th of April 2019, it stated the following.

quote :-

"We have already stated that we believe that your theories, although interesting, are not of major philatelic importance and would seem to be based on a very small sample of material"

And was not as previously stated in my last posting, that is the reason why I gave up contacting them.

Thank you.

Edited By Fred Sellars on 24/06/2019 15:20:44

Fred Sellars25/06/2019 21:21:40
135 forum posts
46 photos

Please don't forget that the ribbing is actually part of the watermark when it was originally created and when the paper was made via the dandy roll when the paper was just pulp.

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