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Should these stamps be listed ?

Penny red perf 16s with short perforations

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Fred Sellars19/06/2019 16:43:17
221 forum posts
76 photos

Good evening everyone,

As everyone must know when a stamp is different it should be classified as a variety and listed as such, however this does not seem to be the case with the following stamps shown below,as I noticed in the SG part 1specialised that these stamps were not included,in the hope to get this rectified I contacted Hugh Jefferies at SG for an answer, that was over 6 months ago and I still have not received an answer.

In the meantime I contacted Eric Syrett of Eric Paul stamps who specialises in the line engraved issues of this era and he replied that SG treat them more as a novelty rather than a variety and will possibly never list them or even mention them.

These stamps come from the "A" rows of the sheet to accommodate the rest of the format,but some stamps from the "A" row on other sheets appear normal.

What is your opinion,are they varieties or novelties ?img_20180821_134638.jpg

Edited By Fred Sellars on 19/06/2019 16:51:09

Fred Sellars20/06/2019 11:06:23
221 forum posts
76 photos

Due to an error I have re-set the jpg hopefully you can now see it.


Fred Sellars25/06/2019 10:30:44
221 forum posts
76 photos

This thread has been on the forum since 19/6/19 and not one of you has bothered to give their opinion, Mr Gibbons won't bite you if you speak out,he may just take notice of what you say.

Let your fingers do the talking !

Carmen25/06/2019 12:45:51
650 forum posts
61 photos

I would consider that a variety, but nobody ever listens to me, Fred! LOL!

Fred Sellars25/06/2019 17:26:53
221 forum posts
76 photos

Thank you Carmen for your contribution as you say "no one ever listens to me" perhaps you should contact the man himself as it appears he also didn't listen to me.

Maybe you might get an answer unlike myself "go on be a devil" his email address is.

That goes for anyone else that thinks the same as you Carmen, after all he is the gaffer.

Just a mention in the catalogue would suffice but there's nowt there.


Edited By Fred Sellars on 25/06/2019 17:33:37

Paul Davey 125/06/2019 21:20:12
417 forum posts
26 photos

Hi Fred

these were comb perforated and the combs were adjusted after each horizontal row so tall and short stamps could occur if the adjustment was not accurate.

The problem for a catalogue editor is that the value depends on how visually appealing it is. The better looking the more expensive. All the editor could do is list it as "from....."

Also these 1d stars are reasonably well collected and the specialist would like to be able to plate them. If you can't read the corner letters this becomes much more challenging. Of course it gives more value to multiples showing such varieties!

I can understand both points of view - list or not - but I err on the side of don't list I'm afraid.

Fred Sellars25/06/2019 21:33:27
221 forum posts
76 photos

Thank you for your comments

The question that I ask you is are they different from the norm and if so then they should be a variety and should be listed as such irrespective of your statement, even Carmen agrees with what I state, there is not even a mention of them surely there should be at least that.

On this point I agree to disagree.

Fred Sellars25/06/2019 21:55:46
221 forum posts
76 photos

It is the responsibility of the editor to least notify the general public that at least there is a variation to the norm or do you disagree with that.

Edited By Fred Sellars on 25/06/2019 21:59:38

Paul Davey 125/06/2019 23:09:18
417 forum posts
26 photos

T'is true but how much do you need it to be different, 1mm, 2mm more? Also it is clear in the introduction to the SG GB concise for example, "Varieties of double, misplaced or partial perforation caused by error or machine malfunction are not listable, neither are freaks, such as perforations placed diagonally from paper folds, nor missing holes caused by broken pins". Clearly misplaced combs are not listable by SG. All is clear!

Other cataloguers may have different views though. I believe Michel, Yvert and Scott don't list them either. I may be wrong on that, haven't checked.

The responsibility of a commercial catalogue in my view is to their owners (to increase their sales of stamps and catalogues) and to give their customers something they want to buy. This is why there are several levels of complexity in the GB listings from SOTW through Collect British Stamps, GB concise to the specialised volumes. Even these do not list everything and handbooks are needed. An example would be the 18 (or more?) volumes on the 1d & 2d line engraved by Ken Statham.

That said it is up to each collector to decide what they want to collect and how!

Fred Sellars26/06/2019 09:35:40
221 forum posts
76 photos

Good morning Paul,

Firstly I must point out that the short perf stamps are not any of the categories stated in the concise.

Double perfs

Misplaced perfs

Partial perfs

Or paper folds

They were not even errors but normally produced stamps of 1854 and consequently the first official stamps to be perforated (make a note of that Carmen in your little black book as you collect 1sts).

Paul, at the end of the day I have a stamp that I am unable to find even in the specialised version that was issued by the post office all those years ago.

Even though I respect your knowledge of philately, I am afraid that you cannot see the wood for the trees, I can only presume you classify these stamps as a novelty along with Stanley Gibbons.

Edited By Fred Sellars on 26/06/2019 09:46:59

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