By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more

Penny red help please

Penny red perf 16 with odd "P"

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  

Trevor Bishop 114/08/2016 17:58:21
188 forum posts
58 photos

Hi ,

I was just sorting through a few old covers and came across this one and thought I would try & ID it . If I'm right I think it is SG 21 perf 16 alphabet 2,the letter is dated 21/04/1855 , however the loop of the P is filled in in both of these consecutive stamps . Does this make it " constant flaw " or just too much ink . Either way I wasn't able to find the relevant plate no in the QV specialised catalogue .

Can someone help me or point me in the right direction , perhaps I should be looking more at the stars in the upper corners ??



Penny red

Julian15/08/2016 08:21:40
635 forum posts
261 photos

Hi Trev I know nothing about this style stamp but just looking at these, they are different.

Because the letter the other side is "E" & "F" and whilst I have obviously seen these stamps before, I never realised how different 2 stamps could be.

Because I have learned a bit about cheating from moderator Paul recently, I have done a quick search on the net and you can start by looking at the nostrils on the nose which tells you which Die was used and these appear to be Die 1 "right" and Die 2 "Left". The nostril on Die 2 is shorter and if from what I have just read about these, they are called Tonna's penny red stars.

As in ALL cases in tradition with stamps, there are many different varieties. And I thought Princess Diana was a hard subject to follow?!!!! It is this type of thing that attracts me to stamps, oddities. Probably because I am very odd myself?!!

Fred Sellars04/07/2019 18:58:01
388 forum posts
122 photos

Hi Trev,

The Great Britain philatelic society issued books on the subject many years ago called "the plating of the penny".

When the die for that particular stamp was being prepared the letters in the bottom corners was inserted by hand, giving them a unique position when the stamp was printed, by using the gauge provided with the guide one is able to identify the plate that this particular stamp has come from (within reason), as very few (if any) are identical in that particular position.

Once you know the type of perforation,alphabet, watermark,die etc you have a chance to complete its ID via the table set out in the guide.

The blind p's and the fact you have a date on cover would indicate volume V is needed for this purpose covering plates 176 to reserve plates 1 to 6.

Hoping that this information helps you.

PS You appear to have the wrong topic it should come under GB collecting  not commonwealth

Regards, Fred

Edited By Fred Sellars on 04/07/2019 19:02:30

Edited By Fred Sellars on 04/07/2019 19:04:10

Fred Sellars05/07/2019 07:57:48
388 forum posts
122 photos

It amazes me that since this thread was created on 14th August 2016 by Trevor that no one had helped him resolve this problem, as with regards to Julian's comments: know what you're talking about before you start,I'd rather see no response rather than the load of hogwash that you stated.

Nothing personal, regards Fred.

Fred Sellars05/07/2019 08:55:56
388 forum posts
122 photos

On checking the website Great Britain philatelic society it states that Vol's 4 and 5 are out of print/ sold out, however on further investigation the dealer by the name of Bill Barrell is currently selling vol 5 for £25 if interested his address is .

Hope this helps.

Carmen05/07/2019 12:40:36
650 forum posts
61 photos

"...know what you're talking about before you start,I'd rather see no response rather than the load of hogwash that you stated."

Fred, one reason I stay in this group is because for the most part, it is a wonderful, kind group with input from all over the place. However, I have found that, as a new member, you tend to harshness, my friend - can you please just remember that your tone on the screen will comes across worse than probably what you meant it. Although I'm not a moderator, could it be possible for you to just watch for that? That will keep it accessible and unintimidating for everyone.

Thanks buddy! laugh

Fred Sellars05/07/2019 13:22:39
388 forum posts
122 photos

Good morning Carmen,

On looking at the pair of perf 16s Julian quoted "these appear to be die 1 "right" and die 2 "left" .

Does this sort of information given appear correct to you ?

What I see is someone giving misleading information and that is why I made the comment, if a person does not know anything about the subject they should not interject, especially if they are staff.

I don't mean to upset anyone, especially Julian.

I hope he now realises the implications it can lead to in giving erroneous advice.

My posting was to put Trevor on the right path in an attempt to gain further knowledge on the subject.

No one else had !!

Is that so wrong ?

Fred Sellars07/07/2019 11:29:07
388 forum posts
122 photos

Good morning Trevor and anyone out there,

I would like to correct the section which begins with "when the die" , I should have said when the plate.

These corner letters on penny reds of this period are known as "check letters", due to there different positions on different plates .

Sorry about the error, we can all make mistakes.


Carmen07/07/2019 13:54:05
650 forum posts
61 photos

Fred, it's not the correction that's the problem, it's the tone it comes across in.

On a side note, I don't think that all our moderators are staff by the way... seems to me some with very active participation were made moderators tears ago, but I could be wrong on that...


Fred Sellars07/07/2019 14:33:16
388 forum posts
122 photos

I'd rather be assertive rather than submissive wouldn't you ?

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Stamp Magazine? Use our magazine locator link to find your nearest stockist!

Find Stamp Magazine!


Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
Universal Philatelic Auctions
Nordfrim April
Guernsey post November
Tony Lester
Glasgow Stamp Shop
varisell stamps
Purves Philatelics
British Stamp Market Values & British Coins Market Values

Subscription Offers

Subscribe to<br />    Stamp Magazine and receive a FREE gift